Main Justice

The highly anticipated release of the Epstein files dropped last Friday with a muted thump, as redactions were abundant and files were held back. Mary and Andrew begin there, with the Justice Department’s failure to comply with the “Epstein Files Transparency Act”, a congressional law compelling the release of "all unclassified records" with a few exceptions. They break down what the law requires, why the DOJ’s redactions raise some concerns, and what new revelations surfaced around Jeffrey Epstein’s 2008 plea deal. Turning to several federal cases on their radar, the co-hosts unpack the news that prosecutors had tried but failed to add a third felony charge against Letitia James and the split jury verdict of Wisconsin state court Judge Hannah Dugan. And before wrapping up, Mary and Andrew examine a unanimous DC Circuit decision allowing the National Guard deployment in the city to proceed, emphasizing D.C.’s unique non-state status. Further reading: Read DC Circuit Panel Decision on National Guard deployment HERE And a note to our listeners: As Mary and Andrew mentioned, they plan to record a new episode next Tuesday if the news warrants it. Otherwise, they’ll take some time to enjoy the holiday season and will be back with a new episode on January 6th. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company.

Seeking political retribution is far different than prosecuting a winning case, as the Trump administration is coming to understand. Mary and Andrew begin here after a grand jury, once again, refused to re-indict New York Attorney General Letitia James. This comes along with a ruling limiting what evidence could be used in the case against James Comey if the government seeks to re-bring that case. The co-hosts also tee up what may come from Jack Smith’s closed-door deposition in front of the House Judiciary Committee, before turning to the latest in the Kilmar Abrego Garcia saga, after Judge Paula Xinis ordered his release. Last up, Mary and Andrew head to the West coast for an update on the National Guard deployment in L.A., and offer some analysis on Judge Bybee’s statement on 9th Circuit en banc review over deploying the National Guard to Portland, Oregon. Further Reading: Here is Judge Xinis’ opinion regarding the release of Kilmar Abrego Garcia. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company.

Last week, the Supreme Court ruled in favor of allowing Texas to use its gerrymandered congressional map in the 2026 midterms, handing a redistricting win to Republicans. Mary and Andrew begin here, pointing to this decision as an example of the conservative majority’s disregard for opinions made by lower courts. Then, they turn to a Virginia grand jury’s refusal to re-indict Letitia James after a federal judge dismissed the initial criminal case against her — showing, in the hosts’ estimation, how weak the reasoning must be for this indictment to be declined. This, before turning to the declarations filed by Kristi Noem, among others, in Judge Boasberg's contempt case, and highlighting Judge Beryl Howell’s scathing decision barring immigration arrests without a warrant in DC. And before they wrap, Andrew and Mary give a quick nod to the Pentagon’s IG report on Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth’s use of the Signal chat app. Further reading: HERE is Judge Beryl Howell’s 88-page decision against DHS over warrantless immigration arrests. HERE is the Pentagon's IG report on Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth's use of the ‘Signal’ chat app to communicate war plans. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company.

“What was said, when was it said, and who was observing the operation as it was ongoing?” These questions are top of mind this week for Todd Huntley, Director of Georgetown’s National Security Law Program and a former active-duty Judge Advocate for the Navy. He joins Mary and Andrew to lend his unique expertise to what the Washington Post reported as a “kill them all” order from Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth. This order reportedly led to a second strike, killing two remaining survivors and, in Huntley’s view, violating the laws of naval warfare and international law, which “give a protected status to shipwrecked personnel.” Mary and Andrew then take a moment to reflect on the tragic shooting of two National Guard members last week and an appellate court ruling affirming a lower court finding that Alina Habba’s appointment as acting US Attorney in New Jersey was unlawful. Further reading: Todd Huntley’s interview in The New Yorker: The Legal Consequences of Pete Hegseth’s “Kill Them All” Order. A former military judge on the Trump Administration’s contradictory—and likely unlawful—justifications for its Caribbean bombing campaign. Here is the original reporting on the 2nd strike by the Washington Post: Hegseth order on first Caribbean boat strike, officials say: Kill them all. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company.

Rachel Maddow’s new series lays bare one of the most shocking decisions in American history. It’s story that reveals how an executive order authorizing the mass roundup of innocent Japanese Americans came to be, the powerful players who engineered it, and the burn order that tried to erase it from history. Stay right here to listen to a special preview of “Rachel Maddow Presents: Burn Order.” And for the full episode, search for “Burn Order” and follow the show. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company.

Amid an abundance of legal issues Mary and Andrew are keeping tabs on, this episode begins with the dismissal of the cases against both James Comey and Letitia James over the unlawful appointment of interim U.S. attorney Lindsey Halligan. The co-hosts work through the judge's decision before reviewing some of the procedural missteps made by Halligan in the Comey case. Next comes the news that the Pentagon is investigating Senator Mark Kelly over a video he and other lawmakers made assuring military personnel they are not obligated to follow illegal orders. As Andrew notes, “Isn't that the law? And isn't that what a president and the head of the Department of Defense want?” And last up, Andrew and Mary touch on a double standard over redistricting efforts, as the Justice Department sues California under a pretense of racial gerrymandering, while notably refraining from leveling similar challenges to Texas’ redistricting plans. Further reading/watching: Here is the Washington Post piece Mary and Andrew referred to: White House blew past legal concerns in deadly strikes on drug boats. WATCH: Here is the video from Sen. Kelly and others: We want to speak directly to members of the Military and the Intelligence Community... Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company.

"Rachel Maddow Presents: Burn Order" is the story of one of the most shocking decisions in American history: the executive order to target and round up innocent citizens, Japanese Americans, at the outbreak of World War II. This six-episode narrative podcast will examine and shed new light on how that policy came to be, who was behind it, who attempted to stop it, and the heroism needed to end the policy for good. Listen to the trailer here and search for “Burn Order” to follow the show. The first two episodes drop December 1st. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company.

This past weekend — after months of deflection from the Trump administration — came a sudden tone shift from President Trump himself, who urged House Republicans to support a measure compelling the Justice Department to release the Epstein files. Mary and Andrew begin here, noting that Trump could just as easily release the files himself without a vote. Next, they review an order to release all grand jury material in James Comey’s case, after the judge blasted the Justice Department for potential misconduct. And before wrapping up, Mary and Andrew head to the latest in the JGG case and Judge Boasberg’s contempt proceeding, after a district court ruled to allow the case before him to proceed. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company.

“Leave aside the cruelty of not giving these funds out,” Andrew says, reflecting on the SNAP benefits case now before the Supreme Court. “What does it say that we're not prioritizing hunger as an issue?” Then, Mary brings listeners up to speed on the dizzying chain of events since Friday and where the SNAP case stands, even as the Senate and House appear to be moving towards reopening the government. And in honoring Veterans Day, Mary and Andrew dig into several issues affecting service members, including the latest filing in Trump v Illinois, and how to think about the term "regular forces", plus Judge Immergut’s final order prohibiting the National Guard deployment in Portland. And finally, Just Security ’s co-editor in chief, Tess Bridgeman, joins to analyze what the law says— and doesn’t say-- about blowing up boats in international waters without a clear justification or congressional authorization. Further reading: Judge Wolf’s piece in The Atlantic: Why I Am Resigning. A federal judge explains his reasoning for leaving the bench. Just Security’s collection of information around the boat strikes: Collection: U.S. Lethal Strikes on Suspected Drug Traffickers Want to listen to this show without ads? Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company.

The Supreme Court’s landmark decision granting presidential immunity for official acts has reverberated in unprecedented ways since its issuance. One consequence, as Mary and Andrew note in their recent New York Times essay, is that rather than “preventing the weaponization of prosecutions, the court has unleashed it.” The co-hosts begin here, offering insights into the ongoing prosecutions of James Comey, Letitia James and the suspension of two assistant U.S. attorneys in DC. Next, they move to some updates on the National Guard domestic deployments, as several cases wind their way through the courts. And rounding out this episode, Mary and Andrew turn to the litigation around SNAP benefits and preview Wednesday’s tariff argument before the Supreme Court. Further Reading: Here is Mary and Andrews’ New York Times Essay: How the Supreme Court Paved the Way for Revenge Prosecutions And as Mary and Andrew discussed, note the difference between the government's first Sentencing Memorandum in the Taylor Franklin Taranto case compared with the second Sentencing Memo. Want to listen to this show without ads? Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company.

The bulldozing of the East Wing of the White House late last week was shocking to much of the nation, Mary and Andrew included. They begin there with concerns, not only about preserving its rich history, but the ethical and legal questions that arise from the president using private donations to fund this ballroom build, and how the Anti-Deficiency Act might apply. Next, an update on National Guard deployments in the California case and the 9th Circuit’s issue of a temporary stay in Portland as they consider an en banc review. And last up, the boat strikes keep coming in the Caribbean -- and now in the Pacific, as the president continues to escalate tensions. Mary and Andrew address the thorny legal issues at play when the U.S. military kills suspected traffickers in international waters. A note to listeners: Since this episode was recorded, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth announced another set of boat strikes in the Pacific ocean that killed 14 people. Further reading: Here is the Letter from several Democratic Senators raising concerns about donations to the ballroom that Mary and Andrew spoke about. Want to listen to this show without ads? Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company.

Mary and Andrew begin this week with the latest in the Trump administration’s attempt to send National Guard troops into American cities. From the 9th Circuit comes a 2-1 decision lifting a lower court’s temporary block on deployments into Portland, Oregon. Plus: the government has asked the Supreme Court to weigh in on the use of National Guard troops in Chicago. Mary and Andrew analyze the legal repercussions of both, then move to reporting on a Trump administration promise to betray U.S. informants in order to secure a prison deal with El Salvador. And while a week feels like a year these days, the co-hosts review both John Bolton’s indictment last Thursday and James Comey’s recent motion to dismiss his case based on vindictive and selective prosecution. Before wrapping up this week, Mary and Andrew take a beat on last week’s oral arguments before the Supreme Court in Louisiana v Calláis that dealt directly with the Voting Rights Act and whether redrawing districts can be used to remedy disenfranchising voters in Louisiana. Further Listening/Reading: Here is Andrew’s conversation with former Special Counsel Jack Smith at an event at UCL in London: The State of the United States: A Conversation with Jack Smith Here is the reporting from The Washington Post Mary and Andrew spoke about: Rubio promised to betray U.S. informants to get Trump’s El Salvador prison deal. Want to listen to this show without ads? Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company.

On October 8, 2025, President Trump deployed the Texas National Guard to the Chicago area – marking yet another instance of military force being used domestically under his leadership. This follows earlier deployments of federal troops to states like California and Oregon. These actions point to a deeply troubling pattern: the use of U.S. military forces – trained to defend the nation from foreign threats – against its own citizens. Mary McCord, Executive Director of the Institute for Constitutional Advocacy and Protection and a Visiting Professor of Law at Georgetown University Law Center, joins WITHpod to discuss the legal and ethical implications of this alarming trend – and what it means for democracy. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company.

Jen Psaki is on a mission to show us how the Democratic party can use this political moment to fight and win again. On Season 2 of her podcast, “The Blueprint,” she interviews the people reshaping the party, starting with Texas Congressman Greg Casar, Chair of the Progressive Caucus. The first two episodes of “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki” are available now, and will continue to drop every Wednesday, from now through mid-November. Stay right here to listen to a special preview. And for the full episode, search for “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki” and follow the show. Plus, subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts for ad-free listening. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company.

Last Thursday, New York Attorney General Letitia James was indicted by a grand jury on two counts. This, on the heels of former FBI Director James Comey’s arraignment, where pre-trial motions were granted around vindictive and selective prosecution. Mary and Andrew use these two examples to explain why targeting individuals instead of crimes violates some of the Justice Department’s most sacred norms. Next, they walk through the latest court battles around federalized National Guard troops in Oregon and Illinois, with a 7th Circuit ruling in Chicago and oral arguments in the 9th circuit over the Portland deployment. Last comes a notable article from Professor Caleb Nelson, one of the nation’s foremost originalist legal scholars, who questions granting increasing executive authority to the presidency. Further reading: Here is Professor Nelson’s article written for NYU Law’s Democracy Project: Special Feature: Must Administrative Officers Serve at the President’s Pleasure? Want to listen to this show without ads? Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company.

Democrats are looking to regain power, and there is a whole lot of warranted debate about what a winning formula looks like. “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki” is a forum where those discussions take place. On season two of her podcast, Jen sits down with some of the biggest names on the left side of the political spectrum to talk about confronting Trump 2.0 and how the Democratic party can shape the future they’d like to see. New episodes drop October 15th. Search for “The Blueprint with Jen Psaki” to follow the show. And subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts for ad-free listening. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company.

Military action is a stark theme this week, as Oregon and Illinois sue the Trump administration over its attempts to federalize National Guard troops for deployment into both states. Mary and Andrew break down not one, but two temporary restraining orders that block deployments to Oregon, as Trump appointed Judge Karin Immergut cites Trump’s own words to show the facts don’t support what he alleges about “war ravaged” cities. Then, they dig into the administration's fourth deadly boat strike on alleged drug traffickers near Venezuela, highlighting how the lack of apparent legal authority might play out, as Attorney General Pam Bondi answered questions from the Senate Judiciary committee Tuesday. Last up, Andrew and Mary turn to two consequential decisions that don’t bode well for the Trump administration: one decision out of Boston, barring efforts to deport non-citizen activists; and a second finding of a “likelihood of vindictive prosecution” from a Nashville judge as it relates to the seeming retaliatory charges against Kilmar Abrego-Garcia. Further reading: MSNBC’s Carol Leonnig and Ken Dilanian report: Top prosecutor is rejecting Trump pressure to charge New York AG Mary And Tess Bridgeman’s piece for Just Security: What the Senate Judiciary Committee Should Ask A.G. Bondi on Drug Cartel Strikes Judge Karin Immergut’s two decisions in Oregon: Immergut’s First TRO blocking federalization of the Oregon National Guard. Immergut’s Second TRO blocking deployment of any “federalized members of the National Guard” to the state. Want to listen to this show without ads? Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company.

In Mary and Andrew’s estimation, there is no effort from the Trump administration to say things softly, the quiet part is very much out loud. They begin with the indictment of former FBI Director James Comey by Trump’s newly installed U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia, Lindsey Halligan, noting how much these targeted charges upend the tradition of a separation between the White House and the Justice Department. The next stop is Portland Oregon, where the president announced his intent to deploy troops to the city in a Saturday Truth Social post, calling it “war ravaged”. Oregon immediately sued to stop the national guard deployment, so Mary and Andrew catch listeners up on where this stands and what to expect. And last, they turn to Trump’s domestic terror memorandum, announcing his intent to investigate left-leaning groups he suggests may be funding political violence. Want to listen to this show without ads? Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company.

President Trump’s pressure campaign to take action against perceived adversaries is unrelenting. Mary and Andrew start this week by breaking down a public push for Attorney General Pam Bondi to prosecute Trump’s political foes, just as Virginia’s U.S. Attorney was ousted for failing to bring charges against Letitia James and Jim Comey. The focus then turns to the government’s attempt to control critics and silence opposition after last week’s abrupt suspension of Jimmy Kimmel, backed by FCC Chair Brendan Carr, as well as what the president designating ANTIFA as a “terrorist organization” actually means. On the flip side comes the effort to dismiss investigations into those aligned with Trump’s cause. And last up: Mary shares the reasoning behind a court's decision to block the removal of dozens of Guatemalan children, citing that the governments explanation "crumbled like a house of cards.” And a reminder: There are still tickets available for MSNBC Live – our second live community event featuring more than a dozen MSNBC hosts. The day-long event will be held on October 11th at Hammerstein Ballroom in Manhattan. Want to listen to this show without ads? Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company.

Last week’s fatal shooting of Charlie Kirk was deeply disturbing, and as Andrew establishes at the start, “murder is murder” and those responsible must be held to account. So Mary and Andrew begin with where the investigation stands and how the FBI has handled the case, as well as the lawsuit filed against FBI Director Kash Patel over alleged politically motivated firings at the Bureau. Then, co-editor-in-chief of Just Security, Ryan Goodman stops in to share his research around the end of “the presumption of regularity” in the Trump era, amid growing frustration from many lower courts. And lastly, Andrew and Mary dig into the latest twists and turns in the President’s attempt to fire Fed Governor Lisa Cook. A note to listeners: After today’s recording, Tyler Robinson was charged with felony aggravated murder, among other charges. Further reading: Here is Ryan Goodman’s research in Just Security: The “Presumption of Regularity” in Trump Administration Litigation And a reminder: There are still tickets available for MSNBC Live – our second live community event featuring more than a dozen MSNBC hosts. The day-long event will be held on October 11th at Hammerstein Ballroom in Manhattan. Want to listen to this show without ads? Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company.